From elb at pidgin.im  Fri Jun  1 19:07:31 2007
From: elb at pidgin.im (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 19:07:31 -0400
Subject: Incidental expenses
Message-ID: <20070601230731.GA31674@elb.elitists.net>

Board,

As some or all of you may or may not be aware (how is that for
vague?), we have been trying in vain to pay 38one (our logo designer)
the balance of his payment for about a month now.  We have been
thwarted by banks, the postal service, and Murphy on numerous
occasions.

I feel very bad about this situation, and rather than continuing to
attempt the check method (which has proven problematic), I am going to
initiate a wire transfer on Monday so that Denis can finally get his
money.  This will cost us either $12 (per a rate sheet that I have
here which is possibly out of date) or $35 (per a quote over the phone
from a representative, but I think maybe he was confused about the
internationality of this transfer, as that is the international
transfer rate).  Both of these are less than $50 and 5% of the amount
we owe, so I am not required to clear this with the board, but in the
interest of openness I am disclosing it.

No action is required from any of you, this is purely informational.

Ethan

-- 
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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From lschiere at pidgin.im  Tue Jun  5 12:23:03 2007
From: lschiere at pidgin.im (Luke Schierer)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:23:03 -0400
Subject: Server Quotes
In-Reply-To: <20070525161814.GI26296@pidgin.im>
References: <20070524183100.GE26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070525161814.GI26296@pidgin.im>
Message-ID: <20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>

On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 12:18:14PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:31:00PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> > From Kevin's company:
> > I can get the following system for $80/month:
> > 
> > Pentium 4 3.0GHz (Hyperthreading)
> > 2 x 120 GB IDE hard drives (software RAID 1)
> > 4 GB DDR400
> > 10 Mbit/s Steadfast Value Network bandwidth (Telia, PCCW, nLayer, Local
> > Chicago Peering, Savvis)
> > Any Linux
> > Remote Reboot Outlet Control
> > 
> > This would require that a link / small logo be placed on the site (in
> > the footer of the web site would be fine), mentioning hosting services
> > provided by Steadfast Networks, linking to steadfast.net.
> > 
> > Without the link the system (mostly due to bandwidth) would run
> > $230/month, or $300 setup and then $170/month.
> > 
> > From Server Beach:
> > * AMD Athlon? XP 2600
> > * 1GB RAM
> > * 2 x 80GB HD
> > * 2000GB monthly transfer
> > 
> > This would be $119/month.
> > 
> > Rackspace is about $400, the specs I was given were vague.
> > * AMD proc
> > * 1 GB ram
> > * 1x HD
> > * 1TB/month
> > 
> > Richard's company:
> > * Xeon 2.8 GHz 
> > * 4 GB of DDR-333 
> > * 4x Seagate Barracuda SATA II drives with RAID (240 GB of usable space, pre-formatting, with RAID5)
> > * roughly $200/month at our standard rates
> > * Bandwidth probably extra.
> > 
> > On the other hand, if we want to buy a server, the place I host at,
> > pulltheplug.com, has
> > * 1U rack space (standard unit of measure for a rack mounted server.
> >   Servers are generally 1U, 2U, or 3U.  1U require special heat sinks,
> >   while 3U and bigger require extra fans).
> > * Remote reboot
> > * serial port
> > * 1mbit rate limited traffic
> > * $85/month.
> > downside: a rack mount server is $1000 to $2000 or so.  6 months ago, I
> > paid $1600 for 2x 2Ghz Opterons, 4G ram, and 4x 120Gb hard disks.
> > 
> > 
> > luke
> > 
> 
> Nathan asked about our current bandwidth usage.  Unfortunately, I only
> have port-level mrtg, not per-IP stats.  We usually have about
> 700kbits/sec, with spikes ranging from ~2000kbits/sec to nearly
> 4.4Mbits/sec.  Most spikes are less than 1400kbits/sec.  All are very
> short in duration, a single datapoint or so.
> 
> I've put the graphs at ~lschiere/day.png ~lschiere/week.png and
> ~lschiere/month.png (on the web server).
> 
> luke

What further info is needed from me to get this ball rolling?

luke


From seanegan at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 14:24:02 2007
From: seanegan at gmail.com (Sean Egan)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:24:02 -0700
Subject: Server Quotes
In-Reply-To: <20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>
References: <20070524183100.GE26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070525161814.GI26296@pidgin.im> <20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>
Message-ID: <e61d333f0706051124x53e35305yde272e6676fd115e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/07, Luke Schierer <lschiere at pidgin.im> wrote:
> What further info is needed from me to get this ball rolling?

I, for one, have no idea about any of this stuff. I would trust you to
decide what the best solution is and put it up for a vote.

-s.

From mark at kingant.net  Tue Jun 12 03:15:26 2007
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:15:26 -0500
Subject: Server Quotes
In-Reply-To: <20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>
References: <20070524183100.GE26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070525161814.GI26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>
Message-ID: <20070612071054.M81211@kingant.net>

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:23:03 -0400, Luke Schierer wrote
> On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 12:18:14PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:31:00PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> > > From Kevin's company:
> > > I can get the following system for $80/month:
> > > 
> > > Pentium 4 3.0GHz (Hyperthreading)
> > > 2 x 120 GB IDE hard drives (software RAID 1)
> > > 4 GB DDR400
> > > 10 Mbit/s Steadfast Value Network bandwidth (Telia, PCCW, nLayer, Local
> > > Chicago Peering, Savvis)
> > > Any Linux
> > > Remote Reboot Outlet Control
> > > 
> > > This would require that a link / small logo be placed on the site (in
> > > the footer of the web site would be fine), mentioning hosting services
> > > provided by Steadfast Networks, linking to steadfast.net.
> > > 
> > > Without the link the system (mostly due to bandwidth) would run
> > > $230/month, or $300 setup and then $170/month.
> > > 
> > > From Server Beach:
> > > * AMD Athlon? XP 2600
> > > * 1GB RAM
> > > * 2 x 80GB HD
> > > * 2000GB monthly transfer
> > > 
> > > This would be $119/month.
> > > 
> > > Rackspace is about $400, the specs I was given were vague.
> > > * AMD proc
> > > * 1 GB ram
> > > * 1x HD
> > > * 1TB/month
> > > 
> > > Richard's company:
> > > * Xeon 2.8 GHz 
> > > * 4 GB of DDR-333 
> > > * 4x Seagate Barracuda SATA II drives with RAID (240 GB of usable space,
pre-formatting, with RAID5)
> > > * roughly $200/month at our standard rates
> > > * Bandwidth probably extra.
> > > 
> > > On the other hand, if we want to buy a server, the place I host at,
> > > pulltheplug.com, has
> > > * 1U rack space (standard unit of measure for a rack mounted server.
> > >   Servers are generally 1U, 2U, or 3U.  1U require special heat sinks,
> > >   while 3U and bigger require extra fans).
> > > * Remote reboot
> > > * serial port
> > > * 1mbit rate limited traffic
> > > * $85/month.
> > > downside: a rack mount server is $1000 to $2000 or so.  6 months ago, I
> > > paid $1600 for 2x 2Ghz Opterons, 4G ram, and 4x 120Gb hard disks.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > luke
> > > 
> > 
> > Nathan asked about our current bandwidth usage.  Unfortunately, I only
> > have port-level mrtg, not per-IP stats.  We usually have about
> > 700kbits/sec, with spikes ranging from ~2000kbits/sec to nearly
> > 4.4Mbits/sec.  Most spikes are less than 1400kbits/sec.  All are very
> > short in duration, a single datapoint or so.
> > 
> > I've put the graphs at ~lschiere/day.png ~lschiere/week.png and
> > ~lschiere/month.png (on the web server).
> > 
> > luke
> 
> What further info is needed from me to get this ball rolling?
> 
> luke

I don't have a strong opinion on any of this.  Our current setup almost seems
adequate to me.  Would this server be in addition to our current one?  What
are the stats on our current server (including price)?  Any reason we're not
getting a second server from the same place?

Out of the options you listed, the server from Kevin's company seemed like the
best deal.  I don't mind having a little logo of theirs on the bottom of
pidgin.im.

-Mark

From lschiere at pidgin.im  Fri Jun 15 10:23:50 2007
From: lschiere at pidgin.im (Luke Schierer)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:23:50 -0400
Subject: Server Quotes
In-Reply-To: <20070612071054.M81211@kingant.net>
References: <20070524183100.GE26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070525161814.GI26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070605162303.GV26296@pidgin.im>
	<20070612071054.M81211@kingant.net>
Message-ID: <20070615142350.GG6388@pidgin.im>

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 02:15:26AM -0500, Mark Doliner wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:23:03 -0400, Luke Schierer wrote
> > On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 12:18:14PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:31:00PM -0400, Luke Schierer wrote:
> > > > From Kevin's company:
> > > > I can get the following system for $80/month:
> > > > 
> > > > Pentium 4 3.0GHz (Hyperthreading)
> > > > 2 x 120 GB IDE hard drives (software RAID 1)
> > > > 4 GB DDR400
> > > > 10 Mbit/s Steadfast Value Network bandwidth (Telia, PCCW, nLayer, Local
> > > > Chicago Peering, Savvis)
> > > > Any Linux
> > > > Remote Reboot Outlet Control
> > > > 
> > > > This would require that a link / small logo be placed on the site (in
> > > > the footer of the web site would be fine), mentioning hosting services
> > > > provided by Steadfast Networks, linking to steadfast.net.
> > > > 
> > > > Without the link the system (mostly due to bandwidth) would run
> > > > $230/month, or $300 setup and then $170/month.
> > > > 
> > > > From Server Beach:
> > > > * AMD Athlon? XP 2600
> > > > * 1GB RAM
> > > > * 2 x 80GB HD
> > > > * 2000GB monthly transfer
> > > > 
> > > > This would be $119/month.
> > > > 
> > > > Rackspace is about $400, the specs I was given were vague.
> > > > * AMD proc
> > > > * 1 GB ram
> > > > * 1x HD
> > > > * 1TB/month
> > > > 
> > > > Richard's company:
> > > > * Xeon 2.8 GHz 
> > > > * 4 GB of DDR-333 
> > > > * 4x Seagate Barracuda SATA II drives with RAID (240 GB of usable space,
> pre-formatting, with RAID5)
> > > > * roughly $200/month at our standard rates
> > > > * Bandwidth probably extra.
> > > > 
> > > > On the other hand, if we want to buy a server, the place I host at,
> > > > pulltheplug.com, has
> > > > * 1U rack space (standard unit of measure for a rack mounted server.
> > > >   Servers are generally 1U, 2U, or 3U.  1U require special heat sinks,
> > > >   while 3U and bigger require extra fans).
> > > > * Remote reboot
> > > > * serial port
> > > > * 1mbit rate limited traffic
> > > > * $85/month.
> > > > downside: a rack mount server is $1000 to $2000 or so.  6 months ago, I
> > > > paid $1600 for 2x 2Ghz Opterons, 4G ram, and 4x 120Gb hard disks.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > luke
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Nathan asked about our current bandwidth usage.  Unfortunately, I only
> > > have port-level mrtg, not per-IP stats.  We usually have about
> > > 700kbits/sec, with spikes ranging from ~2000kbits/sec to nearly
> > > 4.4Mbits/sec.  Most spikes are less than 1400kbits/sec.  All are very
> > > short in duration, a single datapoint or so.
> > > 
> > > I've put the graphs at ~lschiere/day.png ~lschiere/week.png and
> > > ~lschiere/month.png (on the web server).
> > > 
> > > luke
> > 
> > What further info is needed from me to get this ball rolling?
> > 
> > luke
> 
> I don't have a strong opinion on any of this.  Our current setup almost seems
> adequate to me.  Would this server be in addition to our current one?  What
> are the stats on our current server (including price)?  Any reason we're not
> getting a second server from the same place?
> 
> Out of the options you listed, the server from Kevin's company seemed like the
> best deal.  I don't mind having a little logo of theirs on the bottom of
> pidgin.im.
> 
> -Mark
> 

Our current server is _just barely_ keeping up with our current usage.
However, that is not really sufficient.

1)Our pidgin.im webpage is currently a static cache of the "actual"
webpage, this makes it harder to make it fully functional.  Pointing it
at the "actual" webpage costs more in cpu & ram.

2)trac is still quite an expensive process, despite using lighttpd,
requiring regular monitoring to prevent it from going crazy.  Further
more, I believe we still have it partially disabled, for things like the
API viewing

3)our commit emails are broken.  My understanding is that the easiest
way to fix this would be to create a read-only mtn database for trac &
mail, to prevent locking conflicts. This requires more cpu.

4)we have talked about setting up a second mtn dbase for use by
translators, to give them commit access somewhere, but not the main
repository (since we cannot do access controls).  This requires more
cpu.

I am not strongly convinced that we are I/O bound, watching the munin
graphs that Nathan set up.  I think we are in fact CPU bound & RAM
bound. 

luke


