From mark at kingant.net  Sun Feb  1 02:58:15 2009
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:58:15 -0800
Subject: Selling Pidgin tshirts
Message-ID: <55130ac0901312358r77a03f26ye2d9460a852f04e4@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, so I've been meaning to look into various merchandise at various
online shops for a while and send out a nicely organized email.  Sorry
for procrastinating for like 2 years.

The three web sites I've played with are http://www.spreadshirt.com/,
http://www.zazzle.com/, http://www.cafepress.com/.  They offer similar
services and similar prices.  There's a lot of info here, skip to the
bottom for my recommendation.

* Can design various products like t-shirts, sweatshirts, hats,
mousepads, mugs, etc
* Can create a "store" that lives on their website.  You create
products that people can buy and they show up in your store.
* You get a commission when someone buys a product.

Zazzle:
I've gotten stuff printed from them before and been mostly happy.  We
can optionally allow buyers to edit their product before they buy it,
they could change the size of the logo, move stuff around, change the
shirt type (t shirt, mens, womens, tank top, etc.).  I think they
always ship from the US, which means non-US citizens might have to
duty when the product is shipped to them.  They have a minimum
commission of 10% (which is added on to the price the end user pays
for the shirt).  On top of that, if we refer people from our site
(likely) we get an additional 15% (which is NOT added on to the price
the end user pays for the shirt).  And we would get a larger
commission if we sell over $100 in a month.  Zazzle can pay us by
PayPal or by check.  You can see an example of a store at Zazzle here:
http://www.zazzle.com/markdoliner

Spreadshirt:
This is where I got the shirts me Richard and Gary and I for the
Summer of Code mentor summit in 2007.  I've been pretty happy with
mine.  Richard and Gary, have your shirts held up ok?  Their shirts
are generally a little bit more expensive.  Their web site is a little
less in-your-face than zazzle.com.  I think they can ship from the US
or from somewhere in the EU, whichever is closer.  Their commissions
are totally configurable.  And I think they also have an affiliate
program where we would get an additional 20% if we refer people from
our site (likely).  Spreadshirt can pay us by PayPal or by direct
deposit.

CafePress:
I have the least experience with CafePress.  Their prices look pretty
good, maybe better than Zazzle and Spreadshirt.  The commission is
totally configurable, and they also have a commission program where
you get an additional 15% for anyone you refer.  They can pay us by
check.

It's kind of a pain to do the math, but if you make the same design on
the same type of shirt at all three places, and set it up to give us
the same commission, I think CafePress comes out about $2 cheaper than
Zazzle, and Zazzle is maybe $4 cheaper than Spreadshirt.  And people
would probably be paying between $23 and $30 for a shirt, including
shipping, depending on the type of shirt and depending on the design
we come up with.

MY RECOMMENDATION:
All three web sites are pretty good and it's hard to give them a good
comparison.  But this isn't a decision that's going to cause us great
pain--if we chose one and don't like it then we can switch to another.
 The switching cost is pretty low.  I feel like we could debate about
the best way to do this forever, but I'd rather just get something up,
and I feel like this would be super low maintenance.  How about I set
up a shop on our behalf at CafePress and Zazzle (the cheaper two) and
send out the links and we can see how people feel?

If shipping to non-US countries really is a pain point then we can try
Spreadshirt or look into other options.

One thing we'll want to do is get a bigger version of the pigeon logo.
 I made an svg of the "Pidgin" text a while ago that looks pretty
good, but the bird is a lot more difficult.  I can also send an email
to the devel mailing list and solicit design ideas.

-Mark

From mark at kingant.net  Sun Feb  1 09:48:52 2009
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:48:52 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Selling Pidgin tshirts
In-Reply-To: <4985671C.5010808@reaperworld.com>
References: <55130ac0901312358r77a03f26ye2d9460a852f04e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4985671C.5010808@reaperworld.com>
Message-ID: <55130ac0902010648n3c7c475wfcf1219373805327@mail.gmail.com>

Forwarding Gary's response.  It didn't make it to the board list
because the list was set to reject non-member emails (probably my
doing).  I think I changed it to hold non-member emails.

-Mark

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
Date: Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Selling Pidgin tshirts
To: Mark Doliner <mark at kingant.net>
Cc: board at imfreedom.org, Richard Laager <rlaager at wiktel.com>


Mark Doliner wrote:

<snip>

> Spreadshirt:
> This is where I got the shirts me Richard and Gary and I for the
> Summer of Code mentor summit in 2007.  I've been pretty happy with
> mine.  Richard and Gary, have your shirts held up ok?  Their shirts
> are generally a little bit more expensive.  Their web site is a little
> less in-your-face than zazzle.com.  I think they can ship from the US
> or from somewhere in the EU, whichever is closer.  Their commissions
> are totally configurable.  And I think they also have an affiliate
> program where we would get an additional 20% if we refer people from
> our site (likely).  Spreadshirt can pay us by PayPal or by direct
> deposit.

Mine's held up alright, although the collar had an accident with some
bleach :)

> CafePress:
> I have the least experience with CafePress.  Their prices look pretty
> good, maybe better than Zazzle and Spreadshirt.  The commission is
> totally configurable, and they also have a commission program where
> you get an additional 15% for anyone you refer.  They can pay us by
> check.

I've used cafepress in the past to create my gf3 tshirts.  Still haven't
sold any to anyone but myself, but it was easy to deal with at the time
(~2006).

> It's kind of a pain to do the math, but if you make the same design on
> the same type of shirt at all three places, and set it up to give us
> the same commission, I think CafePress comes out about $2 cheaper than
> Zazzle, and Zazzle is maybe $4 cheaper than Spreadshirt.  And people
> would probably be paying between $23 and $30 for a shirt, including
> shipping, depending on the type of shirt and depending on the design
> we come up with.

Dunno how pricing is now, but i was able to get an el cheapo gf3 tshirt
for < $20.
<snip>

> -Mark

--
Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
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From luke at schierer.org  Sun Feb  1 09:58:20 2009
From: luke at schierer.org (Luke Schierer)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:58:20 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Selling Pidgin tshirts
In-Reply-To: <55130ac0902010648n3c7c475wfcf1219373805327@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55130ac0901312358r77a03f26ye2d9460a852f04e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4985671C.5010808@reaperworld.com>
	<55130ac0902010648n3c7c475wfcf1219373805327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090201145820.GG5843@gabriel.twocrazyguys.net>

On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 06:48:52AM -0800, Mark Doliner wrote:
> Forwarding Gary's response.  It didn't make it to the board list
> because the list was set to reject non-member emails (probably my
> doing).  I think I changed it to hold non-member emails.
> 
> -Mark

I told it to reject non-member when I set it up.  I also configured
all board emails to go to the discussion list, which accepts more.

Luke


From mark at kingant.net  Fri Feb  6 12:39:59 2009
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 09:39:59 -0800
Subject: Mailing list settings
Message-ID: <55130ac0902060939pab41ffch2df267b211b0679c@mail.gmail.com>

FYI I'm changing this list back to reject mail from people not on the
list instead of holding it.  For some reason this list gets between 30
and 50 spam emails a day, and I'm not willing to scan through the
subjects/senders of all of them every day for such a low traffic list.
 If anyone else wants to then Luke or Sean or I can add you as the
list admin and you can change the setting.

-Mark

From elb at pidgin.im  Fri Feb  6 14:08:37 2009
From: elb at pidgin.im (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:08:37 -0500
Subject: Mailing list settings
In-Reply-To: <55130ac0902060939pab41ffch2df267b211b0679c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55130ac0902060939pab41ffch2df267b211b0679c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090206190837.GA26400@elb.elitists.net>

Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:
> FYI I'm changing this list back to reject mail from people not on the
> list instead of holding it.  For some reason this list gets between 30
> and 50 spam emails a day, and I'm not willing to scan through the
> subjects/senders of all of them every day for such a low traffic list.
>  If anyone else wants to then Luke or Sean or I can add you as the
> list admin and you can change the setting.

I would be happy to add board@ to the discussion@ spam filter, if you
like.  discussion@ seems to get a minimum of spam.

Ethan

-- 
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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From mark at kingant.net  Fri Feb  6 19:21:32 2009
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:21:32 -0800
Subject: Mailing list settings
In-Reply-To: <20090206190837.GA26400@elb.elitists.net>
References: <55130ac0902060939pab41ffch2df267b211b0679c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090206190837.GA26400@elb.elitists.net>
Message-ID: <55130ac0902061621j2f3bd1dcmb382988807aeebda@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ethan Blanton <elb at pidgin.im> wrote:
> Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:
>> FYI I'm changing this list back to reject mail from people not on the
>> list instead of holding it.  For some reason this list gets between 30
>> and 50 spam emails a day, and I'm not willing to scan through the
>> subjects/senders of all of them every day for such a low traffic list.
>>  If anyone else wants to then Luke or Sean or I can add you as the
>> list admin and you can change the setting.
>
> I would be happy to add board@ to the discussion@ spam filter, if you
> like.  discussion@ seems to get a minimum of spam.
>
> Ethan

That seems like a good idea to me.  It shouldn't really harm anything,
right?  I guess we weren't doing any spam filtering on
board at imfreedom.org?  I didn't realize that.

Thanks,
Mark

