From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct  4 20:14:00 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 19:14:00 -0500
Subject: Email
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>

So I've sent out some feelers but no one has gotten back to me yet, so
here's what I'm thinking for email... It occurred to me way back when
when we started migrating stuff off of network redux that discourse
might be a good fit to replace our email. So now that we're still
dealing with email.. What does everyone think of using discourse
instead?

I'm looking at the pricing and it could be a bit much, but we have
some stuff to tear down in our cluster that should let us drop a node,
and if we'd drop the node for email too which _should_ accommodate
everything.

So.. Thoughts?

Thanks,

--
Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>


From matthew at ei8ht.us  Tue Oct  4 21:03:09 2022
From: matthew at ei8ht.us (Matthew)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 20:03:09 -0500
Subject: Email
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAERx-0NfiM0=skMojoJQmGydtad4S-t2RGRtiuQLk3bX5Xa2qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Discourse used to offer free licenses for open source. I set it up at my
last job, and they seem to still be using it 4 years after I left.


Is that no longer available? I'd be surprised if they kept using it if they
had to pay very much.



-- 
Matthew
(mobile)

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 19:14 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:

> So I've sent out some feelers but no one has gotten back to me yet, so
> here's what I'm thinking for email... It occurred to me way back when
> when we started migrating stuff off of network redux that discourse
> might be a good fit to replace our email. So now that we're still
> dealing with email.. What does everyone think of using discourse
> instead?
>
> I'm looking at the pricing and it could be a bit much, but we have
> some stuff to tear down in our cluster that should let us drop a node,
> and if we'd drop the node for email too which _should_ accommodate
> everything.
>
> So.. Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
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From matthew at ei8ht.us  Tue Oct  4 21:06:15 2022
From: matthew at ei8ht.us (Matthew)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 20:06:15 -0500
Subject: Email
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAERx-0PC2CJgV4C3U2z2jZmZa0xrSKm6L5ReHaWL5kwkGL82Wg@mail.gmail.com>

I think discourse is a great product, and allows people to keep using email
if that's what they want.

I ran it on a pretty minimal DO droplet, and it integrated nicely with SSO
and everything else I needed.

-- 
Matthew
(mobile)

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 19:14 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:

> So I've sent out some feelers but no one has gotten back to me yet, so
> here's what I'm thinking for email... It occurred to me way back when
> when we started migrating stuff off of network redux that discourse
> might be a good fit to replace our email. So now that we're still
> dealing with email.. What does everyone think of using discourse
> instead?
>
> I'm looking at the pricing and it could be a bit much, but we have
> some stuff to tear down in our cluster that should let us drop a node,
> and if we'd drop the node for email too which _should_ accommodate
> everything.
>
> So.. Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
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From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct  4 22:10:32 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 21:10:32 -0500
Subject: Email
In-Reply-To: <CAERx-0PC2CJgV4C3U2z2jZmZa0xrSKm6L5ReHaWL5kwkGL82Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAERx-0PC2CJgV4C3U2z2jZmZa0xrSKm6L5ReHaWL5kwkGL82Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwCPLVLjzVpJsNmHKJeofUPE1douR8-23bkeshDvgKh00Q@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking at the one click deployment in DO and running in on a
$24/month node. I didn't look at the Discourse licensing yet, but I'm
sure we can get it covered if it's not covered by the one click.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 8:06 PM Matthew <matthew at ei8ht.us> wrote:
>
> I think discourse is a great product, and allows people to keep using email if that's what they want.
>
> I ran it on a pretty minimal DO droplet, and it integrated nicely with SSO and everything else I needed.
>
> --
> Matthew
> (mobile)
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 19:14 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I've sent out some feelers but no one has gotten back to me yet, so
>> here's what I'm thinking for email... It occurred to me way back when
>> when we started migrating stuff off of network redux that discourse
>> might be a good fit to replace our email. So now that we're still
>> dealing with email.. What does everyone think of using discourse
>> instead?
>>
>> I'm looking at the pricing and it could be a bit much, but we have
>> some stuff to tear down in our cluster that should let us drop a node,
>> and if we'd drop the node for email too which _should_ accommodate
>> everything.
>>
>> So.. Thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> Board at imfreedom.org
>> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board



-- 
Thanks,

--
Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>


From relwalretep at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 00:14:15 2022
From: relwalretep at gmail.com (Peter Lawler)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 15:14:15 +1100
Subject: Email
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwCumq0EubCx0KwF_DSZy5X9eVDCLPRQ3w_pPDrB1BEHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG73kvWkCSO770Pyf8JUx5yqAWV3ML9WvZ_Z=q8TFL1_hnCbbw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have thoughts worthy of contributing to this discussion. I'm happy
to go with the flow.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022, 11:14 Gary Kramlich, <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:

> So I've sent out some feelers but no one has gotten back to me yet, so
> here's what I'm thinking for email... It occurred to me way back when
> when we started migrating stuff off of network redux that discourse
> might be a good fit to replace our email. So now that we're still
> dealing with email.. What does everyone think of using discourse
> instead?
>
> I'm looking at the pricing and it could be a bit much, but we have
> some stuff to tear down in our cluster that should let us drop a node,
> and if we'd drop the node for email too which _should_ accommodate
> everything.
>
> So.. Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
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From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct 18 17:52:36 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 16:52:36 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>

So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
mailgun[2] for their email.

Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.

So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
mailgun and finally move past this.

I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.

When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
let me know.

Also, as a side note, I will be looking for employment soon as I'm
running out of funds, so if the board would like to pay me to do this
stuff, that would be very cool but of course not expected.

[1] https://librehealth.io/
[2] https://www.mailgun.com/pricing/
[3] https://www.discourse.org/

Thanks,

--
Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>


From matthew at ei8ht.us  Tue Oct 18 19:07:32 2022
From: matthew at ei8ht.us (Matthew)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:07:32 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAERx-0Mpgi2i6t_8BYPYpgyMdWOroy5tK2DORQR+A-8AW-j7SA@mail.gmail.com>

I support this. I've not looked at mail services in 4 years or so, but I
ended up with the aws offering when I set up Discourse back then.

It would break all the links, but you _can_ import mailman archives into
Discourse. Some messages required a bit of massaging, but it worked well.

-- 
Matthew
(mobile)

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 16:52 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:

> So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
> so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
> talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
> the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
> mailgun[2] for their email.
>
> Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
> for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
> multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
> even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
> emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
> about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
> supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
> task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.
>
> So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
> a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
> create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
> appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
> We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
> has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
> that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
> mailgun and finally move past this.
>
> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
> support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
> testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
>
> When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
> just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
> existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
> version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
> solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
> let me know.
>
> Also, as a side note, I will be looking for employment soon as I'm
> running out of funds, so if the board would like to pay me to do this
> stuff, that would be very cool but of course not expected.
>
> [1] https://librehealth.io/
> [2] https://www.mailgun.com/pricing/
> [3] https://www.discourse.org/
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
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From rekkanoryo at rekkanoryo.org  Tue Oct 18 19:08:59 2022
From: rekkanoryo at rekkanoryo.org (John Bailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 19:08:59 -0400
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALfZOuWj5qgZGPgdRGg4cFdO22gibKQZGWxv79ZREp7+KaPQkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:52 PM Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:
>
> So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
> so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
> talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
> the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
> mailgun[2] for their email.
>
> Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
> for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
> multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
> even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
> emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
> about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
> supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
> task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.

This cost seems reasonable to me and within IMF's means for a
considerable amount of time given our current cash reserves.  I assume
this includes spam filtering; handling being DKIM, SPF, and DMARC
compliant; and whatnot?  (I have never looked at this kind of service
so I really have no clue.)

As I've said before, I've been inactive in the day-to-day for long
enough that I'm not sure my opinion on anything would be relevant,
aside from expenses IMF would need to bear.

> So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
> a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
> create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
> appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
> We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
> has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
> that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
> mailgun and finally move past this.

I like the idea of getting rid of that old server finally.

> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
> support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
> testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
>
> When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
> just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
> existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
> version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
> solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
> let me know.

I will think about this and try to find some options.  The one thing
working in our favor here is the existing archives are in mbox format,
and there are only about 10 trillion tools and libraries out there to
do stuff with mbox.

John


From rekkanoryo at rekkanoryo.org  Tue Oct 18 19:13:58 2022
From: rekkanoryo at rekkanoryo.org (John Bailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 19:13:58 -0400
Subject: Investment Account
In-Reply-To: <f6580044-fc88-89e6-960d-588fdc9d417c@pidgin.im>
References: <dbdbd8cc-eb24-e432-1aa0-fee89030bc17@pidgin.im>
 <34f24070-8717-92cf-4fd9-279878fd5ea9@pidgin.im>
 <CALfZOuXkyrv3iN7vRaY2yycJs6fLmoLHxjjs5Y+OA=1UbOCH7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <8edcdacd-e7ed-277a-7434-4704596438ad@pidgin.im>
 <CALfZOuXaH=Bciuf714YCzDYqCnytMNFf8xyvyjvEA=yKUOzz-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <66489a24-a5ba-7cc5-4ce0-9f4420c46495@pidgin.im>
 <CAERx-0O6PCuJSs3fGeO7s1-u0dQ=8A1kxqDFKhfJvbopDCVpyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALfZOuWgx3ThJZL2Fdafj_66aiH+A+_903LvbPaQDSfgp183Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <54f88c8c-957d-f4f4-f6d6-e415e9e385cb@pidgin.im>
 <CALfZOuVQjJ_9ohE71Z8nPCW=2oA-Z03gnCOpkJfxZL=kW6nNwg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d7eeaf5-a038-7bbf-a0bd-c0fbec5c4220@pidgin.im>
 <CALfZOuVgRwVtVZNfC1F-HD9xR9AsPv7JS407Kjy+C6qkHAoGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6a73c1b2-c0c5-b7d2-ac54-e688fe8743fe@pidgin.im>
 <7dce4610-b481-9c1d-d90a-5bc383fa01b6@pidgin.im>
 <f6580044-fc88-89e6-960d-588fdc9d417c@pidgin.im>
Message-ID: <CALfZOuWnifOEwEsZpq4Wf3NrGG3qci6TxTM0W=ezn0MC9cteuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 3:43 PM Richard Laager <rlaager at pidgin.im> wrote:
>
> Since it had been 3 weeks, I called the Delaware Secretary of State. I significantly underestimated how backed up Delaware is. They are 3-5 MONTHS behind.
>
> I had no idea what the costs were to expedite (since I wasn't sure where this request fell anyway, cost wise). They said it was an extra $20 to expedite for the "24 hours" expedite (which is their slowest expedite). (I still didn't ask what the underlying cost would be; I probably should have.) Anyway, I told them to do that. They said it's taking generally two days. So hopefully I'll have this in the mail next week or so.

Wow, that's insane how far behind they are.  Make sure to forward me
any receipts for this request so we can reimburse them.  This is IMF
business, so IMF should pay for it.  It looks so far like the costs
will be under the threshold for direct board approval.

Thanks,
John


From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct 18 19:19:22 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:19:22 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAERx-0Mpgi2i6t_8BYPYpgyMdWOroy5tK2DORQR+A-8AW-j7SA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAERx-0Mpgi2i6t_8BYPYpgyMdWOroy5tK2DORQR+A-8AW-j7SA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwAmfJ=vou9G7zdsT4oWQd30XW+J624SPjw7hG3QkVNNxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 18:07 Matthew <matthew at ei8ht.us> wrote:

> I support this. I've not looked at mail services in 4 years or so, but I
> ended up with the aws offering when I set up Discourse back then.
>

I assume you hosted discourse on aws then too?

It would break all the links, but you _can_ import mailman archives into
> Discourse. Some messages required a bit of massaging, but it worked well.
>

Yeah I'd rather not break the urls and have to do redirect hell like I did
with wiki.imfreedom.org.

-- 
> Matthew
> (mobile)
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 16:52 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:
>
>> So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
>> so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
>> talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
>> the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
>> mailgun[2] for their email.
>>
>> Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
>> for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
>> multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
>> even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
>> emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
>> about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
>> supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
>> task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.
>>
>> So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
>> a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
>> create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
>> appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
>> We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
>> has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
>> that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
>> mailgun and finally move past this.
>>
>> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
>> support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
>> testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
>>
>> When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
>> just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
>> existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
>> version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
>> solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
>> let me know.
>>
>> Also, as a side note, I will be looking for employment soon as I'm
>> running out of funds, so if the board would like to pay me to do this
>> stuff, that would be very cool but of course not expected.
>>
>> [1] https://librehealth.io/
>> [2] https://www.mailgun.com/pricing/
>> [3] https://www.discourse.org/
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> Board at imfreedom.org
>> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>>
>
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From rlaager at pidgin.im  Tue Oct 18 19:25:05 2022
From: rlaager at pidgin.im (Richard Laager)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:25:05 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56e80a6e-d2eb-1734-406d-0de10ad6f1be@pidgin.im>

[Resending from @pidgin.im address so this gets to the list.]

I am fine with the idea of “giving up” on Mailman in favor of something 
else. Likewise for not self-hosting email.

I don’t know about mailgun. If you are looking for other options:

I’ve heard real good things about Fastmail. You might ask them if they’d 
donate free hosting. https://support.fastmail.com/support/

If you just want basic IMAP (with optional webmail) for one or more 
domains, Wiktel could donate that. We have cPanel or non-cPanel hosting. 
No 2 factor right now. (I know. I know.)

-- 
Richard

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From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct 18 19:25:09 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:25:09 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CALfZOuWj5qgZGPgdRGg4cFdO22gibKQZGWxv79ZREp7+KaPQkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALfZOuWj5qgZGPgdRGg4cFdO22gibKQZGWxv79ZREp7+KaPQkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwD-ys9ja1uaVgi6oeb-eCw9hRkpyDLfRMqVu9VH+bC7KA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 18:09 John Bailey <rekkanoryo at rekkanoryo.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:52 PM Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
> > so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
> > talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
> > the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
> > mailgun[2] for their email.
> >
> > Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
> > for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
> > multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
> > even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
> > emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
> > about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
> > supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
> > task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.
>
> This cost seems reasonable to me and within IMF's means for a
> considerable amount of time given our current cash reserves.  I assume
> this includes spam filtering; handling being DKIM, SPF, and DMARC
> compliant; and whatnot?  (I have never looked at this kind of service
> so I really have no clue.)
>

Yeah I need to verify all of that yet, but I can't imagine it's not there.


> As I've said before, I've been inactive in the day-to-day for long
> enough that I'm not sure my opinion on anything would be relevant,
> aside from expenses IMF would need to bear.
>
> > So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
> > a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
> > create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
> > appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
> > We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
> > has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
> > that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
> > mailgun and finally move past this.
>
> I like the idea of getting rid of that old server finally.
>

Me too and especially Richard 😅

> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
> > support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
> > testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
> >
> > When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
> > just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
> > existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
> > version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
> > solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
> > let me know.
>
> I will think about this and try to find some options.  The one thing
> working in our favor here is the existing archives are in mbox format,
> and there are only about 10 trillion tools and libraries out there to
> do stuff with mbox.
>

Yeah I know there needs to be something out there. But like I said worst
case we can just dump them in a container with piper mail setup with CGI.

John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
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From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct 18 19:27:43 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:27:43 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <C8E8CB54-E2E1-419F-A47B-CE51ACD593A6@wiktel.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <C8E8CB54-E2E1-419F-A47B-CE51ACD593A6@wiktel.com>
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwDLS5v8fLgZWSAebq=q51dzbmikMd0OqtiTzvW_4vD=tQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 18:23 Richard Laager <rlaager at wiktel.com> wrote:

> I am fine with the idea of “giving up” on Mailman in favor of something
> else. Likewise for not self-hosting email.
>
> I don’t know about mailgun. If you are looking for other options:
>
> I’ve heard real good things about Fastmail. You might ask them if they’d
> donate free hosting. https://support.fastmail.com/support/
>

The main things for me are smto relay so we can keep email working from
reviewboard and other tools. But I'll look into fast mail too.

If you just want basic IMAP (with optional webmail) for one or more
> domains, Wiktel could donate that. We have cPanel or non-cPanel hosting. No
> 2 factor right now. (I know. I know.)
>

Our primary concern here is smto relay and aliases to forward stuff like
president at imfreedom.org and stuff.

> --
> Richard
>
> On Oct 18, 2022, at 16:52, Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:
>
> ﻿So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
> so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
> talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
> the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
> mailgun[2] for their email.
>
> Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
> for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
> multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
> even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
> emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
> about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
> supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
> task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.
>
> So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
> a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
> create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
> appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
> We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
> has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
> that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
> mailgun and finally move past this.
>
> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
> support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
> testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
>
> When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
> just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
> existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
> version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
> solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
> let me know.
>
> Also, as a side note, I will be looking for employment soon as I'm
> running out of funds, so if the board would like to pay me to do this
> stuff, that would be very cool but of course not expected.
>
> [1] https://librehealth.io/
> [2] https://www.mailgun.com/pricing/
> [3] https://www.discourse.org/
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> Board at imfreedom.org
> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>
>
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From matthew at ei8ht.us  Tue Oct 18 19:53:20 2022
From: matthew at ei8ht.us (Matthew)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:53:20 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAGA0GwAmfJ=vou9G7zdsT4oWQd30XW+J624SPjw7hG3QkVNNxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAERx-0Mpgi2i6t_8BYPYpgyMdWOroy5tK2DORQR+A-8AW-j7SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGA0GwAmfJ=vou9G7zdsT4oWQd30XW+J624SPjw7hG3QkVNNxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAERx-0NFwjxz8S13_HGiYAOUnS6TU8590y4FpMi7e2XKR3mUbw@mail.gmail.com>

I hosted Discourse on DO.

-- 
Matthew
(mobile)

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 18:19 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 18:07 Matthew <matthew at ei8ht.us> wrote:
>
>> I support this. I've not looked at mail services in 4 years or so, but I
>> ended up with the aws offering when I set up Discourse back then.
>>
>
> I assume you hosted discourse on aws then too?
>
> It would break all the links, but you _can_ import mailman archives into
>> Discourse. Some messages required a bit of massaging, but it worked well.
>>
>
> Yeah I'd rather not break the urls and have to do redirect hell like I did
> with wiki.imfreedom.org.
>
> --
>> Matthew
>> (mobile)
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 16:52 Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So yeah.. Another quarter and email isn't done.. Sorry this has taken
>>> so long, it's just difficult and complicated.. That said, I was
>>> talking to Robby O'Conner (r0bby from #pidgin) and he's in charge of
>>> the infrastructure for librehealth[1] and he mentioned that they use
>>> mailgun[2] for their email.
>>>
>>> Mailgun doesn't have an Open Source plan, which means we'd need to pay
>>> for it. It does support both incoming routing rules (it looks like for
>>> multiple domains but I need to confirm) as well email forwarding and
>>> even a REST API if we need that for some reason. The price for 10,000
>>> emails a month (their lowest plan) is $35 per month, which would be
>>> about $420 USD a year. This seems like an obvious no-brainer to me as
>>> supporting, securing, and maintaining an email system is no simple
>>> task and we can make it not our problem for less than $500 USD a year.
>>>
>>> So my plan, with the board's approval, is to roll out Discourse[3] on
>>> a DigitalOcean node, import the mailman users lists into it, and
>>> create spaces for Pidgin, Finch, Purple, GNT, and IMFreedom on it with
>>> appropriate threads and stuff to replace our existing mailing lists.
>>> We would then point Discourse to the current email server that Richard
>>> has patiently been hosting as I try to get this all figured out. Once
>>> that move is complete, we would then replace the email server with
>>> mailgun and finally move past this.
>>>
>>> I need to verify a few things yet, like confirming that mailgun does
>>> support multiple domains, how robust their incoming filters are, and
>>> testing the user import from mailman into Discourse.
>>>
>>> When it comes to the existing archives, the easiest solution is to
>>> just dump them in a container with pipermail and serve them at the
>>> existing URLs, but I'd really like to not have to require that old
>>> version of mailman to get pipermail. So if anyone knows of another
>>> solution, including just rendering it all out to static HTML please
>>> let me know.
>>>
>>> Also, as a side note, I will be looking for employment soon as I'm
>>> running out of funds, so if the board would like to pay me to do this
>>> stuff, that would be very cool but of course not expected.
>>>
>>> [1] https://librehealth.io/
>>> [2] https://www.mailgun.com/pricing/
>>> [3] https://www.discourse.org/
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Board mailing list
>>> Board at imfreedom.org
>>> https://lists.imfreedom.org/listinfo/board
>>>
>>
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From grim at reaperworld.com  Tue Oct 18 23:14:06 2022
From: grim at reaperworld.com (Gary Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 22:14:06 -0500
Subject: The email situation and plan?
In-Reply-To: <CAERx-0NFwjxz8S13_HGiYAOUnS6TU8590y4FpMi7e2XKR3mUbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGA0GwDiQPsa5YeBm_iGE3Kex+68TsOjzwmeF5Wp17xCi_BLqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAERx-0Mpgi2i6t_8BYPYpgyMdWOroy5tK2DORQR+A-8AW-j7SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGA0GwAmfJ=vou9G7zdsT4oWQd30XW+J624SPjw7hG3QkVNNxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAERx-0NFwjxz8S13_HGiYAOUnS6TU8590y4FpMi7e2XKR3mUbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGA0GwDzMiF-96z1D10FawuL0EScMMOq+23R9yEQ0NCRj4K3pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 6:53 PM Matthew <matthew at ei8ht.us> wrote:
>
> I hosted Discourse on DO.

Gotcha, did you use their one click install or just run it on a
droplet yourself?

> --
> Matthew
> (mobile)

Thanks,

--
Gary Kramlich <grim at reaperworld.com>


