From mscdex at mscdex.net  Thu Dec  9 06:15:50 2010
From: mscdex at mscdex.net (Brian White)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 06:15:50 -0500
Subject: issue with secondary connection with oscar protocol
Message-ID: <AANLkTimbxk1+bjCFmdwj0fff57kbrKVFc+PfrjF3QY9E@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the process of implementing the oscar protocol for a library I'm
creating. The docs I've been able to find along with packet captures have
been working mostly fine for me, until now.

Just recently I added the ability to connect to additional BOS servers for
additional services (especially BART). However, I've found that once I
connect and send the authentication cookie to the second BOS server, any
packets I _send_ (no matter if it's a SNAC or even a keepalive on FLAP
channel 5) to the original server forcefully disconnects me from the
original server (specifically ECONNRESET -- "Connection reset by peer"), no
packet on FLAP channel 4 or any error SNACs or anything. I've noticed though
that the first server won't disconnect me if I send a packet right before I
send the authentication cookie on the second server.

Also, it's strange because I can receive traffic (such as incoming IMs, etc)
just fine from the first server no matter where I am in the login sequence
for the second server.

Does anyone know what might cause something like this? I've compared packet
captures of my library against those of Digsby's and Pidgin's and I don't
really see anything that is drastically different that would cause such an
abrupt disconnection.
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From mark at kingant.net  Thu Dec  9 13:36:54 2010
From: mark at kingant.net (Mark Doliner)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:36:54 -0800
Subject: issue with secondary connection with oscar protocol
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimbxk1+bjCFmdwj0fff57kbrKVFc+PfrjF3QY9E@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimbxk1+bjCFmdwj0fff57kbrKVFc+PfrjF3QY9E@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinuPGBA+QyRe3vgM4Mms4B+T2CU49SLSO0xPceT@mail.gmail.com>

This problem doesn't sound familiar to me.  But I wonder... when you
send the SNAC with type 1 and subtype 4, what value are you sending
for the first two bytes?  I'm wondering if you might be sending "2,"
which I could imagine being problematic (i.e. you're requesting a
connection of type 2 even though you already have a connection of type
2).

--Mark

From mscdex at mscdex.net  Thu Dec  9 16:39:40 2010
From: mscdex at mscdex.net (Brian White)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:39:40 -0500
Subject: issue with secondary connection with oscar protocol
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinuPGBA+QyRe3vgM4Mms4B+T2CU49SLSO0xPceT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimbxk1+bjCFmdwj0fff57kbrKVFc+PfrjF3QY9E@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinuPGBA+QyRe3vgM4Mms4B+T2CU49SLSO0xPceT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimSRXur_evZ-QjcjgA-2jS7kYM0zRgJjb-hiEk3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sending 0x10 (BART) as the first two bytes for the request new service
command (I ensure that the first server doesn't support this family before
issuing this request, and so far it never does) . The first server then
happily replies back with the server address and auth cookie for a server
that supports 0x10.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Mark Doliner <mark at kingant.net> wrote:

> This problem doesn't sound familiar to me.  But I wonder... when you
> send the SNAC with type 1 and subtype 4, what value are you sending
> for the first two bytes?  I'm wondering if you might be sending "2,"
> which I could imagine being problematic (i.e. you're requesting a
> connection of type 2 even though you already have a connection of type
> 2).
>
> --Mark
>
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From luismarianoguerra at gmail.com  Thu Dec 30 10:11:49 2010
From: luismarianoguerra at gmail.com (Mariano Guerra)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:11:49 -0300
Subject: I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?
Message-ID: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>

th idea:

design and document a standard format to store conversation logs in a
couchdb database to be used as a plugin (or native implementation) for
all IM clients.

why standard?

because people use different IM clients and/or different machines
and/or different versions and want their logs to be in one place.

why couchdb?

because it's a document database that fits well for this purpose and
it's available in ubuntu by default to store information that may be
sync'ed between different computers.

also it provides out of the box replication and conflict management so
we don't have to think about that.

it also provided a REST API with access to predefined views that can
be used to answer queries like "last messages from X" and stuff like
that.

it also allows to build couchapps that would allow users to access the
logs from a web browser.

what do you think?

From roger at rogerpc.com.ar  Thu Dec 30 10:20:02 2010
From: roger at rogerpc.com.ar (Roger Duran)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:20:02 -0300
Subject: I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinOZ7X-jPNNv_EOL2hUxCcdZE0SJuMdSQfN_3U1@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's a great idea.

Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop
http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch

From luismarianoguerra at gmail.com  Thu Dec 30 10:23:15 2010
From: luismarianoguerra at gmail.com (Mariano Guerra)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:23:15 -0300
Subject: I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinOZ7X-jPNNv_EOL2hUxCcdZE0SJuMdSQfN_3U1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinOZ7X-jPNNv_EOL2hUxCcdZE0SJuMdSQfN_3U1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCFv6PMovjD+JL-WkgJLL=AEa71YKjrCj=xPoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Roger Duran <roger at rogerpc.com.ar> wrote:
> I think it's a great idea.
>
> Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop
> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch

from what I see we should define a format for "Conversations" and try
to add it to the desktopcouch specification.

From kakaroto at kakaroto.homelinux.net  Thu Dec 30 16:18:34 2010
From: kakaroto at kakaroto.homelinux.net (Youness Alaoui)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:18:34 -0500
Subject: I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikCFv6PMovjD+JL-WkgJLL=AEa71YKjrCj=xPoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinOZ7X-jPNNv_EOL2hUxCcdZE0SJuMdSQfN_3U1@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCFv6PMovjD+JL-WkgJLL=AEa71YKjrCj=xPoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin3anwiVN=uOjC7SSvffh3gP8eQ1Q-y67NcqnK5@mail.gmail.com>


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Dec 26 13:36:27 2010
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 18:36:27 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1293743918.17743.openim@imfreedom.org>

text editor (vi/less over ssh).
Having a standard is a good idea though, I just don't know anything about
couchdb so I can't really talk about whether or not it's a good idea to use
it.
I think it's important to ask questions like 'is it scalable?', 'can you
group messages?' (for example a message from X on a private chat, versus on
a group chat).
I think the telepathy team should be included in this talk, their
telepathy-logger would also benefit from a standard format (see
http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger ).

KaKaRoTo

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mariano Guerra <
luismarianoguerra at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Roger Duran <roger at rogerpc.com.ar>
> wrote:
> > I think it's a great idea.
> >
> > Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop
> > http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch
>
> from what I see we should define a format for "Conversations" and try
> to add it to the desktopcouch specification.
> _______________________________________________
> Openim mailing list
> Openim at imfreedom.org
> http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim
>

--20cf3054a47573c55e0498a73a26
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>From experience, I&#39;d say most people want to browse their logs wit=
h a simple text editor (vi/less over ssh).</div><div>Having a standard is a=
 good idea though, I just don&#39;t know anything about couchdb so I can&#3=
9;t really talk about whether or not it&#39;s a good idea to use it.<br>
</div><div>I think it&#39;s important to ask questions like &#39;is it scal=
able?&#39;, &#39;can you group messages?&#39; (for example a message from X=
 on a private chat, versus on a group chat).</div><div>I think the telepath=
y team should be included in this talk, their telepathy-logger would also b=
enefit from a standard format (see <a href=3D"http://telepathy.freedesktop.=
org/wiki/Logger">http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger</a> ).</div>
<div><br></div><div>KaKaRoTo</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, De=
c 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mariano Guerra <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:luismarianoguerra at gmail.com">luismarianoguerra at gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"im">On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1=
2:20 PM, Roger Duran &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roger at rogerpc.com.ar">roger at roge=
rpc.com.ar</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

&gt; I think it&#39;s a great idea.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch</a>=
<br>
<br>
</div>from what I see we should define a format for &quot;Conversations&quo=
t; and try<br>
to add it to the desktopcouch specification.<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5">_______________________________________________<br>
Openim mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Openim at imfreedom.org">Openim at imfreedom.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--20cf3054a47573c55e0498a73a26--

From catfish.man at gmail.com  Thu Dec 30 16:48:48 2010
From: catfish.man at gmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:48:48 -0800
Subject: I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin3anwiVN=uOjC7SSvffh3gP8eQ1Q-y67NcqnK5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinybiPZU6-TqE3pH1F1cZPrpn3pU8byPhJDhT2S@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinOZ7X-jPNNv_EOL2hUxCcdZE0SJuMdSQfN_3U1@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCFv6PMovjD+JL-WkgJLL=AEa71YKjrCj=xPoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin3anwiVN=uOjC7SSvffh3gP8eQ1Q-y67NcqnK5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16C0DED2-E69D-44B0-8B18-41704A658667@gmail.com>

I would find any sentence containing "most people" and "vi" (or even ssh) extremely suspect. Of the five people currently in the house I'm in, for example, I'm the only one even capable of doing that, and I have no reason or desire to. Am I missing something?

As for log format standards, there was a valiant attempt by Adium developers and Pidgin Summer of Code students, but it ended up not getting much/any adoption outside of Adium. I would say things to consider are: searchability, portability, convertibility, quick access to the last N messages (many clients pull the last messages from a chat for context when opening a new chat, and lag there is unacceptable), preservation of message *and* chat metadata, and preservation of attachments (direct IM images for example).

One thing that occurs to me is that storage on most devices is large enough these days that it might be acceptable to store some sort of package file with both a human-readable text representation and a full-metadata database or markup representation of some sort.

	David

On Dec 30, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Youness Alaoui wrote:

> From experience, I'd say most people want to browse their logs with a simple text editor (vi/less over ssh).
> Having a standard is a good idea though, I just don't know anything about couchdb so I can't really talk about whether or not it's a good idea to use it.
> I think it's important to ask questions like 'is it scalable?', 'can you group messages?' (for example a message from X on a private chat, versus on a group chat).
> I think the telepathy team should be included in this talk, their telepathy-logger would also benefit from a standard format (see http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger ).
> 
> KaKaRoTo
> 
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mariano Guerra <luismarianoguerra at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Roger Duran <roger at rogerpc.com.ar> wrote:
> > I think it's a great idea.
> >
> > Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop
> > http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch
> 
> from what I see we should define a format for "Conversations" and try
> to add it to the desktopcouch specification.
> _______________________________________________
> Openim mailing list
> Openim at imfreedom.org
> http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openim mailing list
> Openim at imfreedom.org
> http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim


