<blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">That's a great idea, keep a .txt format and a more complete log at the same time, this way everyone is happy.. </blockquote> As a user I think that's great. I'd like to be able to read logs without a special software/readers (in txt format). Having a rich text format, preservation of conversation and metadata is even better. 2011/1/2 Youness Alaoui <<a href="mailto:kakaroto@kakaroto.homelinux.net">kakaroto@kakaroto.homelinux.net</a>>: > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 4:48 PM, David Smith <<a href="mailto:catfish.man@gmail.com">catfish.man@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> >> I would find any sentence containing "most people" and "vi" (or even ssh) >> extremely suspect. Of the five people currently in the house I'm in, for >> example, I'm the only one even capable of doing that, and I have no reason >> or desire to. Am I missing something? > > haha, that's a very good point :) Well, the ssh/vi was for my use case, but > still, a lot of people do complain in amsn forums about not being able to > read their logs in notepad/whatever because the format is 'weird'. > I wouldn't say "most people", but I'd still say a significant portion of the > users want that feature. > >> >> As for log format standards, there was a valiant attempt by Adium >> developers and Pidgin Summer of Code students, but it ended up not getting >> much/any adoption outside of Adium. I would say things to consider are: >> searchability, portability, convertibility, quick access to the last N >> messages (many clients pull the last messages from a chat for context when >> opening a new chat, and lag there is unacceptable), preservation of message >> *and* chat metadata, and preservation of attachments (direct IM images for >> example). > > Humm.. not getting much adoption outside of Adium, but is it because it > sucked? or just because noone cared? If their solution is good and efficient > and well documented, we might as well use it and try to standardize it. > About the requirements, it's a good idea to try to get a list of > requirements and quantify them. I'd add to the list "easily/quickly get the > log size", aMSN has a "sort contacts by log size" for the contact list. >> >> One thing that occurs to me is that storage on most devices is large >> enough these days that it might be acceptable to store some sort of package >> file with both a human-readable text representation and a full-metadata >> database or markup representation of some sort. > > That's a great idea, keep a .txt format and a more complete log at the same > time, this way everyone is happy.. the issue with that is the confusion to > the users : "I don't understand, I deleted the log, how come it still shows > it to me in the log viewer of the app!", but I think that's not a big deal > (if .txt file is missing, delete db file, or put both files in the same dir > with similar filenames, so the user can see them and delete them both if > he's not too dumb, etc..) > KaKaRoTo > >> >> David >> >> On Dec 30, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Youness Alaoui wrote: >> >> > From experience, I'd say most people want to browse their logs with a >> > simple text editor (vi/less over ssh). >> > Having a standard is a good idea though, I just don't know anything >> > about couchdb so I can't really talk about whether or not it's a good idea >> > to use it. >> > I think it's important to ask questions like 'is it scalable?', 'can you >> > group messages?' (for example a message from X on a private chat, versus on >> > a group chat). >> > I think the telepathy team should be included in this talk, their >> > telepathy-logger would also benefit from a standard format (see >> > <a href="http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger">http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger</a> ). >> > >> > KaKaRoTo >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mariano Guerra >> > <<a href="mailto:luismarianoguerra@gmail.com">luismarianoguerra@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Roger Duran <<a href="mailto:roger@rogerpc.com.ar">roger@rogerpc.com.ar</a>> >> > wrote: >> > > I think it's a great idea. >> > > >> > > Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop >> > > <a href="http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch">http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch</a> >> > >> > from what I see we should define a format for "Conversations" and try >> > to add it to the desktopcouch specification. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Openim mailing list >> > <a href="mailto:Openim@imfreedom.org">Openim@imfreedom.org</a> >> > <a href="http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim">http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim</a> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Openim mailing list >> > <a href="mailto:Openim@imfreedom.org">Openim@imfreedom.org</a> >> > <a href="http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim">http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim</a> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Openim mailing list > <a href="mailto:Openim@imfreedom.org">Openim@imfreedom.org</a> > <a href="http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim">http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openim</a> > > -- xiamx (Mengxuan, Xia)